Claire Davis 1:03
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another edition of medical sales leader. Today I have a bit of a spontaneous guest. And the way this all came about, and we're going to call it what did we decide to and we're going to call it a leader a sweet leadership bite. Because today Tim and I were talking earlier about what it takes to be a leader, what happens when you're thrust into a leadership position and what it takes to be there and survive and thrive there. And then we thought, Well, why not give it a go and put it right here on the podcast. So I am really excited to do this quick leadership bite with Tim. And if you haven't met Tim sweet, yet, he is an incredible, excellent leadership coach, among many other things. So Tim, thank you so much for being here with me today. And if you wouldn't mind, give us a quick rundown of who you are and what you do for people?
Unknown Speaker 1:56
Well, Claire, first of all, I am really happy to be here. This is what I hope is the first of many, because I think just in our initial conversations here, it's just so wonderful to talk to you. And it's been great to be connected for the last year over LinkedIn. A little bit about me, my whole purpose in life, what drives me is seeing leaders reach their full potential. And sometimes leaders have to reach their full potential by looking at how do they lead? What's their capacity to lead personally, but then also do they have the team behind them that is really going to is going to materialize and make real the impact that that leader wants to have on the world? And do they have the operational design? Do they have that engagement from the employee? And are they really pointed in the right direction strategically, because not all leaders can be successful in all situations, you can have a great leader, but if the work design, the team, and the direction in which they're pointed, is not designed for success, that leader can fail. And I think it's a very real problem, especially when you have emergent leaders or people that are finding themselves rising through the leadership ranks through the managerial ranks, that they begin to blame themselves for those problems, when in fact, it's it's an engineering issue. Yeah, you know, you're by design,
Claire Davis 3:16
I really appreciate what you bring forth there. Because if I had to gauge the percentage of people who I work with, and for those who if we haven't met yet, I'm Claire Davis, I work a retraction resume, and I helped medical sales leaders get great jobs with resumes and interview prep. And I can tell you for sure that it's roughly 80% of my clients who come to me because they're fleeing poor leadership. So Tim, this is what initially drew me to you. Because when you talk about leadership, you're not just talking about having a director title. You're not just talking about having a VP of Sales title, what you're talking about, and what you are empowering people to do is to identify what it is probably about themselves that make them a leader that can really bring forth great leadership within them, and how to harness that. So can you sort of first give us the the dichotomy that's there between I have a leadership title, and I'm a true leader. What is the difference? Just to quickly demystify it for everybody?
Unknown Speaker 4:29
Yeah, when you're when you're in an organizational hierarchy, or you have organizational responsibilities and accountabilities, that's something that's position grant, and that is something that you're promoted into, that is something that you, you apply for and you get hired into, but leadership on a much more meaningful term, because not not all managers are leaders. And not all leaders or managers really It's it's leadership is not something you can be promoted to, it's something that you actually strive for you and I may not have large teams, we may not have a team at all. But we are still leading in the area of, of a subject matter of a service type of a vision for the future vision for other people, we're leading thought, or we're leading a brand, or we're leaving things like this. And when we talk about leaders in organizations, they may not have a formal team. And, and leadership is really about the capacity to have a bring a group of people together and have them succeed, while succeeding, it's something else that they are really making. They're taking something that's nebulous, and they're creating it, making it real, and driving people forward so that they can achieve something together. And, and that does not mean that you've been promoted into that position, nor does being promoted into that position mean, you're good at that. In fact, it's not a skill that people are taught, which is why it's so it's such a difficult thing to, to harness for some, and why there's so much shame built up around it, oh, are often ashamed that they are promoted into a senior position, and are having difficulty or they were doing well, in one role at one company, and then they're moved over to another and guess what they struggle. And I think understanding what a person's limitations are, what's holding them back, and freeing them of those so that they can go and be their their own best version of a leader is such a critical, such a critical experience, especially when you're just starting out.
Claire Davis 6:45
Oh, my goodness. So you know, and one thing that you introduced to me not so long ago was there is a difference between leadership principles, right? And the capacity to be a leader. So can you talk to us a little bit about what that capacity looks like, and how people can identify it, and then, you know, move forward with that?
Unknown Speaker 7:07
Sure. And what I would say is, is that capacity is not a singular capacity, it can be different for everybody, you can find your fuel to lead, you can find your strength and your influence, and what you're going to leverage in your own self in your own experience. And that's going to be completely different than the person next to you. Yeah, just also why if you have mentors, within leaders that are trying to imprint upon you, they're trying to take you down their path, we run into so many problems, because it really has to be advocation. For that person's only own unique vision. But in terms of the capacity to lead, there's some interesting stats depending on which research group you want to follow. But in general, the ones that I like to quote are, we see pretty consistently that about 6% of the population are actually in positions of leadership. And, and I would attach a caveat to that. And that is that they are willingly in in a position of leadership, that it is something that they they are drawn to and choose to do. And within that 6% We have people that are are willing to accept the responsibility for others for their work experience, they're willing to accept the mission of an organization and make it their own. And what's what I really think is interesting about that, that number is within that 6% of the population, about 80% of them say that deciding or acting as a leader has actually made their life more difficult. It's brought stress and anxiety into their life, it's brought friction, perhaps with the family, it's bought, brought emotional effect because they care about other people, and they want to see their people accelerate and, and succeed. And it's, it's also brought the stress of seeing an organization flourish. For 80% of them, it has made their life somewhat more difficult. Yeah, that's a lot of pressure. Here's the distinction factor for all six of them, the the 20% that find it that aren't currently struggling with it, and the 80% of all that are for that 6% of the population might have thrown around a lot of numbers around. They wouldn't do anything else. Yeah, despite the fact that it's hard. They wouldn't do anything else. And that's where we really this is the key differentiating factor is it stops being a job and it starts being a call. It stops being something that you can be hired into and something that you need to feel deep in your bones and you have to be fulfilled by and it has to complete the definition of you. And that's why the number 6% is so small. Because for many people, you know what they This is not to say it's a bad thing, but they, they want to live their lives. And they want to succeed on their own terms, and they want to go to work, do a good job, collect a paycheck, and go home and not have to be terribly responsible for anybody else on the team, other than you have much stronger teams when people are responsible for the well being of their team members. And there is some minor leadership, but it is it is not what defines them. It's not at the core of who they are.
Claire Davis 10:35
You know, I think there's a lot to be said about this. Because certain, you know, we're we've all taken personality tests of some kind, right? And I think that
Unknown Speaker 10:47
get me started in personnel.
Claire Davis 10:49
Gotta break them all out. I've got six books right behind me with their kind of personality. But I think that there are like you're sharing certain proclivities that leaders do have certain traits that emerge. And one that struck me that you mentioned to me this morning was spontaneity, and I had never considered spontaneity, as you know, I considered it to be important in some aspects, and maybe less so in others, but I had actually never linked it with leadership. So can you talk about how spontaneity plays a role in true leadership and why it's important, and maybe if there are a couple of pitfalls with spontaneity, too.
Unknown Speaker 11:36
Yeah, spontaneity is not a singular state. And for leaders, we have to realize that for much of their time in the leadership chair through the course of their year, spontaneity is not exactly what we want to see. Now it happens intermittently, but, but for the most part, employees will be looking for the leader to be stalwart and solid and, and carry the vision through. So we set the goal, we we declare the plan, and people know how to win, and they know who they're going to get when they go, and they talk to a leader and that authenticity, that logic and that, that consistent empathy is very, very important. In fact, they're the building blocks of trust, when it comes to leading a team. However, when we have the need to do what I like to call a crazy Ivan, you know, when we think of when we think of the the movie, Hunt for Red October, every once in a while, the Russian submarine captains would have to check that there wasn't an American, nucular sub writing in their baffles, so that they would pull this 360 and, and they called it a crazy Island, every once in a while leadership teams need to do this, they need to get up 300,000 feet and start working on the business not in the business, they have to take a look at the operating environment, they have to take a really deep, clear look at what's the behavior of the teams and of the strategy and of the of the engineering of the business and personalities who are within that business. And ask themselves, is there something here that needs to be recreated, stabilized, changed, adapted evolved, and that is that moment of spontaneity and for leaders, sometimes finding spontaneous moments has to be planned for it has to be allowed, they have to be given permission. And this is why it's so important if you're going to be setting like we're coming up on The Season of team builds and and annual meetings, right? When we're doing strategic offsites you have to make sure that those are spontaneous creation filled events, where people's minds aren't stuck in the rigors of today and the old plan. Yeah, and that they have the ability to get out. And and think about it. And so I think that having those moments of spontaneity planned is really, really important. And then the other thing I would say is, let's just realize the tensions that are against this, not only is there the attention of being the tension of being stable and and stalwart, again, consistent, but within the C suite, for instance, within the executive team, we rely on one another to to be predictable, we also rely on on each other to toe the line in a certain extent we, you know, Are we all together. And so sometimes spontaneity is interpreted or as seen as a real risk for teams, and in mid to low performing teams sub optimally performing teams. This is a direct challenge, again, to trust it's a direct challenge again to true teamwork and collaboration, because I will resist the urge to be spontaneous and to tell you what I'm thinking in the moment for Fear of it may put me on the outside. Yeah. And it's seen as Aratus ism, it's seen as being unstable. So there really is a rejection of spontaneity where a person can be seen as to random or to, or to, well, how would you describe me? I'm, I'm, I'm nonlinear. I'm fairly abstract. Ya know, I spend my time in the discernment and invention space. I am that is what I'm there to do. I look at things differently, and I invent new ways out of them. That is not that is that is a highly spontaneous type of, of role in an organization. It's my job, right? I like to call myself a PSD, professional ship.
Claire Davis 15:48
We all need some of you, Tim, we really do. You know, and what strikes me about what you're saying, you know, to go back to feeling like you can be on the outs for being spontaneous presents this really big challenge for people specifically in medical sales, because they have been entered into a very serious industry, right? We're affecting patient lives at the end of the day. Yeah. However, now, if you've been in medical sales for more than 15 years, you're gonna know this. But you had to stick to the script for so long, eons ago. And now, it's how do I stop the scroll? How do I partner with a physician in a way that nobody's done it before? And in fact, scripts are being done away with all together in favor of spontaneous relationship building. And I right, yes, right. And so I would argue to that, until there is a level of spontaneity, where you're trying enough things and like you said, working on the business, not just in the business, then you've got to almost try these different avenues to know how to be able to set yourself apart so that you can make it a part of the consistent way that you do business. So do you think that there is a season for spontaneity? Do you think that there is a certain balance that you need to strike between the two effective leader?
Unknown Speaker 17:16
Yes, I mean, balance is the name of the game. seasonality? Absolutely, there's, there's a season by which most businesses will follow where there has to be safe spaces for collision, where we're going to work, we're going to take off the, the shackles of the norms, and we're going to really work we're going to really get open and, and try some different things in safe sandboxes. But we're going to, we're going to really lean on people's creativity. And I believe they need that time, when we when we refer specifically to medical sales, or at least use it as an analogue. There's not only that seasonality, but there is a language a lingo and an awareness that that, that comes internally with that, that the maturity of the sales professional or any leader for that matter, is to find their own specific leadership group. And part of that when it refers to spontaneity, or any of the other strengths or geniuses that they might bring to the show, is understanding that you don't have to be all spontaneous or not. It doesn't have to be just on or off. It's not this type of binary relationship, you can decode yourself so that you know that when I'm setting up a client relationship, the promises of the product, and what it does, the research is not an area to be spontaneous, the brand awareness and customer goodwill and larger questions, again, not probably an area of to be terribly spontaneous, but the establishment of a relationship, the listening to the customer, understanding what their clinical issue is, or where, what their internal culture is, or Hadaway associated with them. That's an area to be highly spontaneous, it's an area to think on your feet. And, you know, stick, move, jab, really dance around that ring, and, and be able to, you know, be involved in that most human of of interactions where we are, where we are tailoring ourselves in the middle of a conversation and really being empathetic to the needs of this person in front of me. And moving on a dime, still having the confines of representing a product or representing a service and at the same time making this person feel like Yeah, you were at once the center of my attention right now. And that I am here for you and I understand what you need and I and I can still dot line to the logic of the product that I'm going I'm selling. Yeah, and it's not lost. I've worked in in certain areas of medicine in large laboratory services. Some things like this, and you are dealing with life and death in many cases where you're dealing with tragic stories or you're dealing with people's children. And and we are dealing with very serious issues, but having the spontaneity to bring lightness and levity to that, to bring personality and creativity to that within that allows people to find footholds and connection both to you and to your product. And at the end of the day, that's the role of the salesperson is to allow me to understand and and imagine how this product fix fits into my practice fits into my definition of helping my patients fit fits into how I inject some good into the world. And so I think we need to be able to dance with that. Yeah. And so back to your original question. It's not simply it is seasonality, I think on a team level, especially seasonality is important. Having regular touch bases weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually. Very, very important. But individually getting a vocabulary, getting a deep understanding of yourself, to understand which of your strengths, you're going to flip over to the to the stable, solid, consistent method of approach and which ones you can play with, and which ones you can show up and be incredibly authentic. And that mix is not the same for everybody. Powerful for everybody, you
Claire Davis 21:34
know, if you get it, right, yes, absolutely. And like you said, it's so individual. In fact, if you're up for it, I would love to have a sequel to this episode, where we can kind of dive into how people can start identifying that unique mix. Because if I know one thing after working with 1000s of medical sales reps at this point, every single one of them are so individually talented. And so being able to tap into that it's going to be really valuable for them. So Tim, can you tell us if someone really wants to go deep on this and to identify what their leadership, you know, blocks are, what their strengths are maybe how to leverage it better in a team, and to really gain this freedom that you're talking about by understanding themselves better, and then moving forward from that place? Where can they connect with you?
Unknown Speaker 22:30
Well, the easiest way to get a hold of me is go to TW e dot team slash discovery. And that's t w e, teamwork excellence dot team discovery, book me for 30 minutes. And we'll talk about your situation personally. Will, it's free, it's no obligation. Many people find enough direction out of that meeting to carry on other people, as you say want to go deeper? Yeah, that's one way. The other thing I would say is just visit TW e slash solutions. And you can get an eye dia for what I do. And the various ways that I show up both for teams and for individuals. And then we've just got a lot of really interesting stuff going on right now. Yeah, we're launching a new program programs for the fall. And we've got a new podcast running, and which I am absolutely eager for you to be part of Oh, thank you. Well, so just reach out to me on LinkedIn, and that sweet leadership on LinkedIn, you'll find me there and any other social platform that you look for sweet leadership.
Claire Davis 23:30
Awesome. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate you today. This all came together in such a beautifully spontaneous way. And so I love to speak with people who truly, truly practice what they preach, and you are certainly one of those. So thank you for joining me today. We will not make it our last and I am. So looking forward to seeing what we chat about next. So thank you for your time. And everybody who's listening today. If you want to start harnessing these principles in leadership, please do go to those sites where Tim mentioned, and follow him on LinkedIn. And I will make sure to put all of these things in the show notes as well. So thank you so much for joining us, Tim. And thank you everybody for watching today.
Unknown Speaker 24:09
It's been something that I've been waiting for for a long time. I appreciate the invitation. All the best Claire,
Claire Davis 24:14
thank you. You too. Talk to you later.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
